Last year we created a series of interviews, PhotoVogue Female Gaze, to develop the theme explored during the first PhotoVogue Festival in 2016, interviewing some photographers who are part of our community. This year, as we launched our Global open call, Women by Women, our will was to create a more participatory space, where women artists could dialogue and share similarities and differences in their practices and ways of observing reality. That s why we changed the title to Female Gazes.
In this first conversation, we invited artists Ana Margarita Flores and Marisol Mendez to delve into their projects Where These Flowers Bloom and Madre. Both Ana and Marisol come from Latin America and left the region at different times of their lives. We discussed identity and belonging, what it means to cherish the multiplicity of all the cultures lying inside them, respecting their incongruences, and deconstructing beliefs and certainties. But we also talked about what it means to be a woman in the industry, to portray women and individuals being aware of the power detained by who is behind the camera, and how to find your path in a creative industry where, as they say, you must learn how to be creative also in managing the financial aspect of your career. The result is a layered conversation in which many contemporary themes such as colonisation and gender structures intersect and are revealed with gentleness and irony.
CATERINA DE BIASIO Thank you for accepting my invitation. First of all, I wanted to ask you both how your projects were born and also the reason behind the title you chose.
MARISOL MENDEZ I started my project Madre in 2019. I went back to Bolivia after being abroad first in Buenos Aires and then in London where I did a fashion photography master. That time in fashion was a moment when you visibly saw that people were questioning these more hegemonic narratives within fashion. There were so many things happening, including that Yalitza Aparicio, an indigenous woman, the protagonist in the film Roma, was on the cover of a magazine. I thought that I would find a diverse, rich in its different cultures but no, I returned to a place where the gaze was stuck in time, especially on how women were depicted in the media. As a visual person I was also thinking: we have all these beautiful things, why are we not showing them? So the project was born just from this idea of how I want to challenge these images that I see of women as objects, by taking photographs of the women that I see in my everyday life.
At that time my mum found the family album while organising the apartment and that was amazing because it helped me look at the diversity within my family, although women from past times have had fewer spaces to express themselves, but even there, you could see this diversity that I wanted to celebrate. But also it was a window into my own family.
Bolivia is still a very classist and racist place. So it was interesting to me because it allowed me to also be critical about this history, about my family s past, and allowed me to show its complexity. So there were these diverse layers of using the family archive, reconnecting to myself, commenting on Bolivia and I feel that the images that I started making were about imagining a new future.
To move forward the following question, my project is a docu-fiction called Madre because I like how the word madre can refer to one of the most amazing powers of women, which is giving birth, creating life, but can also be somehow a prison for women. After all, for a very long time in history women were considered reproductive systems, their worth lying in how they could reproduce. So to me Madre is these two things: it s amazing to be a woman, I celebrate it, but I also want to protest the narrow spaces that we still inhabit.
CDB I think that I wanted to have you two together for many similarities, but the one that I really liked is the fact that you went abroad at different times of your lives, and then you had to somehow reconnect and recognise your own culture, the original one.
ANA MARGARITA FLORES I resonate a lot with what Marisol said because of this feeling that she had when she went back to Bolivia and she realises that a lot of things she reconnects with or she noticed passed through her own family.
For me, as you said, I have gone back since I changed careers and I started my degree in fashion photography. Photography has allowed me to ask questions that I didn t ask or even consider before. Also, studying fashion photography helped me—we had to do some research about what we wanted to say through our own photography so that was the very start of the desconstruction of the message behind my photography. We were told that the first thing to look at is yourself and that space allowed me to research.
So I went back to Peru where I spent time with my grandmother and looked at family archives. I went to Cusco and I met indigenous communities that were working with a really high-end restaurant and a research center called Mil. They showed us how they were taking care of the land, the knowledge they had since pre-Incan time.
Even though I knew that side of history, I didn t connect directly with them ever and it gave me another slap in the face because I felt ignorant about my own country. I grew up in a household where obviously Peruvian culture was very present, but it was only present through food and through language, and we didn t really speak about Peruvian history. To be honest, I didn t even ask many questions when I was back in Switzerland with my parents. I think I took it for granted for a while. But my photography degree gave me the tools to deconstruct everything.
When I was there in 2023 I did some research about colonialism as well and I was directly in front of people who have been neglected and discriminated against for centuries. A part of me was so proud of being able to interact with them and proud of the knowledge they have upheld all these centuries. On the other hand, I was very angry when I realised that they are so important to our country but they are discriminated against most of the time because of the lack of formal education, or the color of their skin, or the language they speak.
When I had to do the final year degree project I wanted to explore how textiles have been a language and also an act of resilience. I decided to do research about it for my dissertation and then I connected with the visual aspect of my project. This helped me to dig deeper into it and while I was doing research, while I was trying to understand why I wanted to do this project, I realised as well that it was also deeply personal—I had to see myself and understand my positionality as well, because I m Peruvian.
Both my parents are Peruvian, but in Peru I m perceived as a white person, even though in Europe I m perceived as a brown person, which it took me a while to acknowledge also. My maternal grandmother is brown and she has been a victim of a lot of discrimination in her life but I, as her grandchild in Peru, am perceived as white.
I made a direct link between the history of indigenous Indian women and my grandmother. I also wanted to explain why I was doing this and why I chose Cusco. I was born there, it was my way to reconnect with my own roots and go back to the same place where my mother was pregnant with me. I took some self-portraits and I went back to my family house, which was very very emotional. That s also why I connect a lot with Marisol’s work is because we understand each other s identity through our own family history.
As I was looking for names for my project, I remember I was riding my bike and listening to music, and I listened to a song by Tyler the Creator. It s called Where This Flower Bloom. It was right in the middle of the research. I instantly knew, okay, this is a title. And I changed it. I switched it a little bit to where these flowers bloom, because it talks about three different women: my mother, my grandmother and myself. And where we all bloom is actually Peru as a common ground. I deeply felt that going back there helped me to bloom not only as an artist but especially as a person.
CDB When you both were talking, I noticed that you used the word anger. I find this very interesting considering you re both women and the tradition of seeing women as angry- The theorist Sarah Ahmed says that anger is a very fertile emotion especially in women and we should celebrate it also because it can be a source of positive change, especially for creative people. So, I wanted to ask you if you ever felt that in your identity, both as women with Latin American origins, you were flattened in how people see you and your work and what do you do to challenge it?
MM Maybe my answer is that right now I am very interested in the word “intersectionality” that has been floating around for a bit now. I like the word that you used, “flattened”, because things are very complex, the identity is very complex. It is formed and informed by the place where you are born, the place where you are raised, by your geography if you want.
I bring up the word intersectionality because I like that we are thinking now of these more hybrid identities that condense a lot of things, because we are so many things. As you said, our identity is also shaped by us being women. But I am Bolivian, but I am a white Bolivian, which is already another differentiation that completely affects my experience in life. It s a little bit sad not to be able to pinpoint exactly who I am. But then I think, oh, maybe that is nice, this fluidity.
AMF I like that you talked about intersectionality. I connect deeply with that because I was born in Peru, but I grew up in Switzerland, so a huge part of me is Swiss. But also another huge part of me is Peruvian and for a while I struggled a lot to find a place. Back then I thought I needed to find a place but now I understand that I love being able to be in Switzerland, to be in Peru, and feel at home. I love being able to connect with many different cultures, and being the result of this mixture.
With the fact that we are seeing a lot more of Latin American artists, we are able to add layers to this dialogue about Latin America, about what people perceive of Latin America and what it means to them, especially in Europe.
A lot of people have a lot of stereotypical ideas of it and people put me, or put us, in this whole box of Latin America. All you Latin Americans, all you share the same language, you listen to the same music. But there s so much more complexity. I think the power we have as artists is actually showing them that even though we speak the same language, there are so many different voices even in a single country. It s the same as in any other country in Europe.
You were talking about anger. I think it was a good starting point because it gives a lot of motivation to dig deeper and not only learn about my own culture but also show that we are complex: stop putting us in a box and listen to our stories.
We are not necessarily trying to erase this image that people might have given us intentionally, but we just do it because we are doing our own work and we are just giving another point of view, sharing our own experiences.
CDB We Europeans tend to act like we are the only ones allowed to complexity. I think the beautiful and normal thing that you do is to look at things with intersectionality: when you observe something, you just see it as complex, because reality is complex. Both of you analyse patriarchy and the role of the woman, but also colonialism, and you don t separate these things—they are deeply interconnected in your projects. So, what I wanted to ask you is if there was a moment when you realised that the way you look at pictures and create them is somehow biased or coming from a patriarchal colonialist perspective? Or that you had to deconstruct something also inside of yourself?
MM I complain a lot about machismo and I grew up very machista myself because I come from a conservative background. Not necessarily my parents, but Bolivia is more traditional and conservative than many other places. It s very interesting that patriarchal ideas are also passed down by mothers actually.
Latin America still today has a very machista culture, very patriarchal, very traditional. The presence of the Catholic Church is omnipresent. Faith is amazing, I love that people have faith, but unfortunately the Catholic system has a very narrow view on women and to this day so many spaces of power are denied to women. But if you grow up Catholic like I did, this is what you learn. I thought that I should be sexy, I had to wear super tight clothes and I felt bad because I didn t have big boobs.
I like the word deconstruction because it means that you do not necessarily erase or forget all these ideas, but that you examine them and even make an intervention on them. This is what I did in Madre.
I came from fashion, so I was used to making portraits, thinking about styling ideas, thinking about how people would look, how they would dress, but in Bolivia I didn t have a stylist. So, Catholicism became my stylist.
I got so many amazing ideas from there, but the interesting thing for me was to use the Catholic imagery, but to oppose the message. I will give you a Mary Magdalene, but she will be a trans woman who would wear only these very sexy tight panties. To me, humour is also a way of proposing new worlds. But you have to escape from anger and turn it into something playful. I think that s also a way of challenging this more patriarchal way of looking.
And one last thing, there are amazing men who helped me become less machista. So, I think this is something that we have to keep doing collectively. I don t think we re perfect. These are new structures that we are trying to construct.
AMF I agree with what you said at the beginning, deconstructing means acknowledging what our own experiences are, understanding where we come from and then making an active move to change it with or try to challenge it.
Even though I m Peruvian I was very scared of being another photographer that exoticises the culture, and I was scared to recreate work that has been done before. I always thought a lot about how to photograph my subjects, how to approach the work. I really wanted to show them how much I respect them, it was a love letter to them and my country. So, in order to move away from that, I researched how previous photographers portrayed people not only in Latin America, but also in other Global South countries. I try to understand and deconstruct what was wrong in each image.
I didn t want to change anything about how they looked. Something that also I was very deeply inspired by was their use of colour. I had a little chat with them about how they choose their outfit of the day, and it was really interesting to just dig deeper into that. On a daily basis they wear similar clothes but they either change their hats or the colours.
So, that s how I started. I collaborated with another director and we thought about other ways to represent this traditional clothing, to play with it, and to make a more fashionable contemporary art image. For some of the images, for still life images, I took references from campaigns but using traditional shoes. The idea of playing with that side of my culture was a way to show another representation of what fashion is.
When I was at university I was being told that if I didn’t bring brands into the dialogue, it was not fashion. I was like, so who defines what is fashion? It s contemporary clothing, they re wearing it today. Just because there isn’t a brand involved and you don’t buy them it doesn’t mean it’s not fashion. This just validated my idea that I needed to do this work, I needed to photograph them in their own fashion.
CDB You both use clothes to deconstruct reality, one from a colonial and one from a patriarchal perspective. Since we were children we’ve been told what are proper clothes and which are not decent, and it s the same with fashion: we’re constantly told what is fashion and what is not.
AMF I just remember that the very starting point for me was when I read this book The Open Veins of Latin America by Eduardo Galeano.
MM That book made me angry!
AMF I read it two or three times and I read it when I was doing my research for the final year project for the dissertation. There is this little paragraph where he talks about the fact that tourists love to go to Latin America and take pictures of women wearing traditional clothing without questioning its legacy. He says that these dresses were imposed by Spaniards back in the days, same as the hairstyles, and I was like, what?
What we call tradition it s actually a product of colonialism and I didn t realise that I never questioned it. Some research showed that hats were also obviously being posed and they were used to distinguish people: each land owner had his slaves and to be able to differentiate them they would wear different hats.
MM In Bolivia, the cholitas pasenjas wear the bowler hat, which is actually a hat that men used to wear. For a northern legend, there was an over-shipping of these hats and they could no longer sell them to men because there were not enough men. The salespeople sold it to women saying that the hat was something very fancy, something that would give them status for its European provenance. The women in Bolivia wore this hat that was originally for men, and European, but in this case it wasn t necessarily an imposition. It was something that people wanted to use to differentiate themselves in this class system.
This is why it s important to have this multiplicity of people s eyes looking at these stories because we have to show them from all these different angles. The problem before has always been over-simplifying it, that we have been looking through a single lens or for a very long part of history only some kind of people were allowed to look.
So now that it seems to have gotten more diverse, it is very good that we have more Latin American photographers looking at it. It s so good, because many of our pictures, much of our legacy came from people from the West looking at us. It s very important to look at yourself to get this diversity of voices, this more coral narrative of our experiences.
CDB Coral is a word I like a lot. You both chose a collaborative way of interacting with the subjects and creating the projects. I think in these times the discourse about consent and how to interact with the subject you portray still remains urgent. How did the women you collaborated with inspired you and how were these projects a double-sided work?
MM To me, there is always this connection aspect when you are photographing someone. The most basic thing that you owe to the other person is respect. But somehow it seems to be one of the things that flies out the window so many times.
I myself, for example, get very nervous on the other side of the camera. I understand the power imbalance that just happens when you are doing photography because you are in charge of somebody else s image and that is a trust that somebody is putting in you. So to me it s super important not to betray that trust and to be responsible with what I m doing on the other side. It s as simple as asking someone their name, looking them in the eyes when you are interacting, sharing your ideas. Asking them: What do you think? Are you comfortable doing this? Can we do that?
I remember there was this non-binary person that I was working with and we had agreed that we were going to do a nude on that day. They didn t feel like they wanted to do it anymore and what do you do? Don t do it and relax. Then I made some beautiful headshots of this person. So there s always a way to go around: the person comes before their photo.
I think that the work always grows somehow, from collaboration and talking to the other person. It s beautiful if they can share their thoughts and feelings. To me that makes the photograph even better.
AMF I resonate with everything that you just said. I approach every single person with the same intention. I want them to be happy with the image we created together. I want them to be proud of how they look in the image because I know so much how it feels to be in front of the camera and seeing a picture of yourself.
You have to be aware of the power you hold and then also deconstruct it with the person in front of you by making them at ease because you want this moment to be special. What I d like to do is just chat with a person before doing the shoot, and even after.
I shoot analogue so I can t show them the results, but when I have time I just take a one shot with my phone and show it to them. With the women I collaborated with, it was the first time ever that they were part of a photoshoot, so obviously they didn t know what to do and how to interact with me. I did a first little interview to introduce myself. I wanted to create a trusting, safe space and I wanted them to know me first.
The thing I care about the most is that the person is happy with the image. If they re not happy, then I m not happy and I don t even want to use it. The most important thing is the collaboration and the ability to give space to the person in front of you as well.
CDB I think it s important to also talk about the practical aspects of your projects. Do you want to share how you organise your work and find the resources, like printing and travelling? Do if you have any tips for young photographers and artists with a similar background, any struggle or solutions that you want to share?
AMF After university, I applied for a grant in Switzerland, which helped me to move to London. I think it’s fundamental to research. At university, we had to create a research journal. So that s why I do a lot of research. I just write down words, and I try to link these words to do some research. I was able to have access to a huge library, as well as online resources which were linked to university archives. If you re not at university, watch movies, look at paintings. Try to find as many references as possible. I try not to stick to one idea, keeping my mind open to any possibility. Then once I have all these ideas, I try to understand why I m coming back to the why. Why am I doing this?
I would suggest to everyone to follow this gut feeling that you have because you don t have it for nothing. It s your instinct that s speaking to you, but no one is there to tell you that you re doing the right thing and you re going on the right path. When you re in it you don t realise that you re on the right path. But I would say just stick to that good instinct and enjoy the process because everything has a purpose.
I would say that we have to be very creative as well in the way to make money. It adds up to the stress. I come from a privileged background compared to a lot of people so I m very grateful for that but I also had to work a lot. I think it s a strength to be creative with your savings and be intentional with where you go, where you look for money.
MM To me it has to be passion and persistence. I always say that when you pursue a project, especially a long-term project, it is like you enter a relationship. So, you really have to be passionate, very in love with whatever it is you are pursuing, because for sure there will be moments where there are hardships, when it s very difficult either practically or more intellectually. I think it s choosing something that you really want to do and resonates with you, and being persistent. Pushing through the difficulties, being creative when you get on a roadblock. I also always say it s more about being resourceful than about having many resources.
In my case, speaking very openly, I returned to Bolivia living at my mom s place. So, I wasn t paying rent, and that is a big difference. When I started, I didn t make my money at all from my photography. I was working as a teacher. I still work as a teacher to this day because that is a stable income. But when I was living in London, I remember this hustle culture: I would be working so much that I didn t have the time or space to create. In Bolivia, I wasn t in this survival mode and I had more time to dedicate to my work, but in my city there are no photography labs. Sometimes I would have to wait months until I found rolls of film to shoot. All of the rolls that I used were outdated.
I shot with my analogue camera and the sun as my light, my mom as my assistant. I made very ambitious work with a lot more heart than necessarily a lot of resources. To my students I say it s very easy to invent excuses. I don t have the latest camera, I don t have a stylist, I don t have locations. If you have creativity, you find a way around all this. If you re really passionate about what you want to do, you find a way around all this.
AMF I really like that you said you re entering a long-term relationship. It is like it s a full-time job. You really have to be passionate about it. I shot with film and I was privileged enough to be at university, so I didn t have to pay for development and for printing which would have cost me so much. I still find ways to develop my own work for free, but I realize how much I would have been paying if it wasn’t for uni. Students need to know that when you re at uni, you must use the facilities. You will never have those amazing scanners again!
It s about being resourceful and even if it takes longer, if it s what you re meant to do, just keep doing it. Let’s be honest, nobody is waiting for our work, so take your time and try to find ways to produce it.
CDB Final question. There s this myth that I want us to dismantle, that men, especially in working environments, are better at creating connections and solidarity. Would you tell me about the people who helped you?
MM I dedicated my book to my mum because she was really the person that was with me throughout the project. I called her assistant, but she deserves a more intersectional kind of named tag for what she did. My mom, even though she is not an artist, knows me and she knew the work, so even when I was sequencing, I would show it to her.
I would share the work that I was doing in my family group chat and ask my sisters: we took these pictures, which one is better? I feel very happy to have this nucleus of family that is very supportive. The project would not be what it is if it wasn t for every woman that participated in it. I wish I could take credit, but I was surrounded by all this beautiful energy. And I must say that back then I had also these two male photographer friends who helped me a lot. My book editor was a woman, she was the one who convinced the publisher to make the book. My writing teacher, who is a poet from Argentina, and Elisa Medde wrote for my book. The book was a collective effort of all these women. Many eyes that go into a project, many conversations, many voices.
ANA So for me it was very solitary at the beginning, but when I feel stuck, obviously many times during the process, I like sharing my ideas with my closest friends.
Especially with my housemate, one of my best friends. She understands my background because we both grew up in Geneva and we are both Latin Americans. Then obviously my mother even though at the beginning she didn t really understand what I was doing but we opened up a dialogue which helped me to see many things.
Through PhotoVogue I met my best friends today, Bettina [Pittaluga], Delali [Ayivi], Tara [L.C. Sood]. Over the years we created this safe space and this trusting relationship where we could share openly about our work. And you know, Marisol, how hard it is to find creatives you can trust and really share with. They saw my artistic evolution and and they were so helpful in the sequencing aspect of it because they have more experience than me in this. I felt so privileged and so lucky to have their voices because not only they re my friends, but I m so inspired by them. I admire their work, so I trust their eyes as well. We literally spent 3 hours on my project to dissect it.
I m so grateful for PhotoVogue because I not only met my best friends today but also met other photographers that are becoming friends. With Marisol, I saw her work on Instagram, we connected and then we met in Paris and clicked. And then again we met at the PhotoVogue Festival this year. I think that s why PhotoVogue is so important, because we have this space where we are able to meet other incredible women photographers.
MM I m so glad to be able to do that with you today. Like Ana said, the PhotoVogue community is one that really unites us. I m meeting all my Instagram friends in real life.
CDB Thank you so much. Enjoy your evening, Marisol, and Anna enjoy your day.
AMF I m going to go to the library today.
CDB Researching and connecting words!
