“There is something hugely Donna Karan Collection to this.” That was designer Willie Norris as she walked me through her new lineup for cult menswear label Outlier consisting of what she calls eight “essential” pieces that she’s edited together to launch the Willie Norris for Outlier capsule. The co-branded collection, launching tomorrow, is the latest iteration of Norris’s work for Outlier and the first that will carry her name.
That Norris evokes Karan will come as no surprise to those familiar with her work. Norris’s collections, as technical and performance driven as they are, have often taken cues from the likes of Karan and Isabel Toledo. “Seven Easy Pieces is just formative,” said Norris of Karan’s famous 1985 debut collection, which was conceived as an all-encompassing, easy-wearing stretch-based wardrobe that could take women from day to night.
With this capsule Norris wants to crack a similar code, and she’s done so via what she calls a “personal vetting process.” There’s a news bag, which Norris says was inspired by the bag she carried when delivering newspapers in middle school; a longline short-sleeve button-up; a longline lab shirt coat; an overcoat; a paracord belt; what she calls an “exceptionally high-waisted” pair of pants; an unlined tailored jacket; and a cropped, capelike button-down—all of which Norris herself has road tested and wears.
But it’s not just Karan’s easy pieces that inspired this outing; it also summons Norris’s own sense of pragmatism. Outlier is a menswear label, but these pieces are fluid, cut and fit on the body of the label’s transfeminine designer with technical features—such as the zip-up side vents on the high-waist pants that allow for stretch when the wearer sits—that make them a unique brand of ergonomic chic.
What Norris has cleverly determined is that her own demographic (the queer, fashion-loving subculture of New York City) and the die-hard menswear fans that constitute Outlier’s customer base have something in common: They’re less interested in the gender identity of the person designing the clothes and in the gender assigned to that product than whether the “shit is actually good and works for them,” as Norris put it. “When the work is good, everything else kind of goes over.”
Ahead of the launch, Vogue Runway caught up with Norris on how the last eight years of her work at Outlier led to this moment and how her ever-growing relationship with her body has impacted the way she designs for herself and now for everyone else.
Vogue: You’ve been working with Outlier for eight years now. How did this co-branded capsule come to be?
Willie Norris: As a designer, once you’ve been at a brand for long enough, you become intrinsically linked to its output. When people talk about Outlier, there’s a likelihood that they’re also talking about Willie Norris. It’s a fact that I recognized and wanted to encapsulate by making a proper container of my work at Outlier. I oversee all the products that we do—main line, core, the stuff we sell huge units of—but I wanted a place where Willie product could live. I see it as a shop-in-shop, where there’s a main section of Outlier and now a Willie Norris for Outlier selection. It’s a one-plus-one-equals-three value proposition. You are getting Outlier’s material language that is deeply unique, my design, and my own personal vetting, which is a little different and you don’t see as often. I’m designing the pieces but also wearing them constantly. I’m vetting them by wearing them myself and fitting them on myself. It’s a very personal process.
How do you approach putting together a capsule that is personal while still merchandised for a broader audience?
That’s the permanent question in the back of my mind: How do I get products out there? How do I get these things out there in a way where it doesn’t feel piecemeal? It was really important to create something that all works together and feels close to me and like a proper wardrobe. I want to put out pieces that have everything figured out. So here I am trying to give you pieces to buy as a wardrobe but also deliver a narrative about how I live my life and dress myself. I see it both as a designer and from a customer perspective because I love shopping and these are the things I wear myself.
What did you learn about yourself in the process of putting this together?
That is a very good question. [Laughs.] I have learned that I can wear an extraordinary size range of products. Having a size range available for me to see and try on made me realize that sometimes an extra-small is perfect for a purpose and that a double XL is just right for another. I learned that I dress my best and feel most like myself when I have options that are part of a larger system.
As we discuss the idea of options, how do you define what is essential in a wardrobe?
There’s a really good point that I want to make here, which is the difference between what I’m presenting here, the Willie Norris for Outlier capsule, and the commercial output that I design for the brand at large, and my Ideas platform that comes out seasonally. [Editor’s note: Ideas is the collection Vogue Runway reviews each season.] I use Ideas to get concepts out of my head, and what really works and sticks from that is what comes out here in the capsule. Finding what actually works comes from extreme product honesty, iteration, and relentless experimentation.
Within Outlier, you have a very close relationship with your customers through Discord and social media. You get to have these exchanges where customers tell you what works, what doesn’t, or what they’d like more of. How does that feedback loop change with this capsule?
I can’t belabor and kill myself over every product we put out. It’s just not sustainable. I look things over, I do my best to bring out the best product and oftentimes look to the client base and internal to get feedback. With this capsule, I was the feedback loop, and that can get dangerous because you’re talking to yourself. But I embraced that and did lean into a little bit of that designer psychosis in terms of making sure that I got something I was happy with. If someone sees it without knowing me or having any background reference, am I still confident in it? Is the shit good? That’s what I was trying to get at in the end. That’s also why it’s so small and edited.
You have a very expansive point of view on gender, but when it comes to what you do for Outlier’s main line, it’s menswear. Where does this capsule fit in the spectrum?
It’s deeply menswear inspired, in that most of my references start from a menswear space. But in lieu of describing this as menswear or womenswear, I like to see this as a fluid collection that is neither. It’s what Willie wears. That particular part of it is something I am owning within this. It doesn’t have to work for everyone. The starting point is what I wear and my own body first, and then I’m offering it to whoever sees the vision and thinks it would work for them.
On this idea of identity, you’ve gone through so much over the last couple of years as you’ve transitioned. What has it all taught you about your relationship with your own body?
What I have unlearned [laughs] is more interesting. I’ve unlearned an assumed idea that my body is flawed or damaged. This collection is a really beautiful way of encapsulating that because it was built based on my own form and body, which is something I have avoided for so long. Many forces out there want you to think that your body is less than or that the meat suit we all carry around is especially flawed. But really you’re in control of the narrative of how you relate, view, talk to, and talk about your own body.
Has your relationship with the idea of gender and clothes changed over the last few years?
It absolutely has, and you see it in this capsule. I’m wearing a lot of masculine clothing, which is something I was really afraid of for a long time, especially at the beginning of my transition. It just happens to be that the clothes I’m most comfortable in, 90% of the time, are these. Every three or four months, I’ll wear something that is the most femme possible thing I can find or concoct, and that settles me. Since I’ve started being really open about my journey, gender has increasingly meant less in terms of fashion. I understand that it’s there, and it’s a thing that must be broached and talked about, but at the end of the day, I care a lot more about feeling like myself than I do about being perceived as masculine, feminine, man, woman, et cetera. I was afraid for a while about talking about it that way, but it’s the truth. I’m only interested in being perceived as myself.
