Jennifer Garner is five minutes early for our Zoom. Sitting next to a nightstand on the floor of her childhood home in Charleston, she assures me that this is rare; usually, she’s at least 10 minutes late to everything. But today, she was eager to hop on and discuss a film that she hasn’t stopped being asked about on a nearly daily basis for 20 years.
“When I watched 13 Going on 30, my first impression was that I’d never seen myself smile so much on screen before,” Garner says. “I had never played a role as close to my own personality as Jenna.”
In the film—released in 2004—Garner plays an unpopular 13-year-old who magically wakes up one day in the body of her 30-year-old self, a glamorous fashion editor at the fictional Poise magazine. Disheartened by the harsh realities of a life she used to dream about, Jenna quickly understands that navigating adulthood isn’t so different from surviving junior high—especially when your colleague-slash-best frenemy is played by a deliciously evil Judy Greer, who joins our call several minutes later with a rush of apologies. She’s currently in Finland, filming a stunt-heavy action movie with Emma Thompson, and she’s very happy to reflect on a less strenuous role.
“I like to call myself Exposition,” Greer says, “because usually I play the character in the corner saying things like, ‘Do you really think you should go out with him?’ ‘Are you sure you wanna eat that?’”
Greer is only half-kidding. Between The Wedding Planner and 13 Going on 30, she developed a reputation in the aughts for nailing the sassy best friend archetype, a mainstay of the rom-com genre. But Lucy is more than her bitchiest quips—and “You can wipe the doe-eyed-Bambi-watching-her-mother-get-shot-and-strapped-to-the-back-of-a-van look from your face” is pretty bitchy. Greer makes a meal out of every scene she’s in, and her venom is the perfect counterpoint to Garner’s bubbly earnestness. Despite their onscreen rivalry, however, the two became fast friends.
“We would run into restaurants in our wardrobe to have a quick girls’ lunch and just talk about our lives,” Greer recalls. Garner, then two seasons into the hit ABC series Alias, on which she played an ass-kicking CIA agent, would often share tips of the trade with her co-star: “I taught JG [pronounced jayj] how to do spy stuff in between takes because I was so deep in that world,” she says. “It was lots of running down hallways and sneaking onto elevators.”
The film marked a turning point for everyone involved, including Mark Ruffalo, best known until then for his work on the New York stage, or in grittier fare like In the Cut. Two decades later, no matter how many Marvel movies or Oscar nominations he racks up, he still holds a special place in millennial hearts for playing the painfully adorable Matty Flamhaff.
Director Gary Winick had never made a movie for more than $150,000 when Garner hand-picked him to direct a big-budget studio rom-com. While a straight dude in his 40s might not have seemed an obvious match for the material, Garner and Greer credit him with bringing a sense of pathos to a high-concept comedy.
“I have no idea what it s like to be a 13 year old girl,” Winick said in the behind-the-scenes documentary Making of a Teen Dream, a bonus feature on the 13 Going on 30 DVD. “But what I can get is wishing and wanting to be something and getting that wish and then realizing, Oh, my God—you’ve been climbing up the ladder to get ahead and you’ve been on the wrong ladder.”
The core cast of the film remained close with Winick up to his death in 2011, following a years-long battle with brain cancer. Now, the mere mention of his name is enough to elicit teary-eyed smiles from Garner and Greer, who both consider 13 Going on 30 a personal and professional touchstone.
“I’m not sure how much is just nostalgia of that time, or the kismet of me, Judy, Mark, and Gary being together,” Garner says, “but there really is a golden halo around the entire experience.”
To celebrate 20 years of 13 Going on 30, Vogue caught up with Garner and Greer to discuss making the film. Make sure to grab some Razzles, queue up Liz Phair, and remember: love is a battlefield.
Vogue: Jen, there’s a BTS documentary on the DVD where you say 13 Going on 30 is the first role you were ever offered without an audition.
Jennifer Garner: You know, I’ve never watched any of those special features on the DVD. I keep meaning to but I haven’t watched the full movie since it came out. JG, I need to sit with you so we can lean back and laugh our heads off together. I had been offered a few things here, and there but I guess you’re right: this was the first role I was ever flat-out offered and ended up doing.
Was it an immediate yes?
Garner: I just felt right away like I had never played someone as close to my own personality as Jenna. I also loved the producers Donna [Arkoff Roth] and Susan [Arnold], so I didn’t need any convincing, per say, but I should note that the script was not in the kind of shape that it ended up in. There also wasn’t a director on board when I read the script. But I watched Tadpole and thought it was so wonderful, and then I met with Gary and just immediately fell in love with him.
Judy, what do you remember from your audition for the film?
Judy Greer: I had so much fun at my audition, which is never usually the case with auditions. Gary was giggling and doing this little shoulder thing he did when something really cracked him up. I had also heard only the most incredible things about Jen—everyone was obsessed with her and still is. I was just really excited at the prospect of getting Lucy—which I did! And this is the thing you re not supposed to say, but it was the most money you, me, and Mark had ever made at that point.
Garner: Oh for sure. It was a really big deal for all of us.
Greer: It felt like all of us were leveling up together.
What do you two remember from your first meeting? Would you say there was instant friend chemistry?
Greer: I would say it was pretty instant.
Garner: It’s always been easy with us. The first time we met was during rehearsals for the “Thriller” dance. JG and I were totally comfortable with each other and having the time of our lives, but Mark was ready to quit the movie.
I read that and wanted to ask how true it was—did he actually threaten to quit over having to dance?
Garner: His face was pretty grim. We were having so much fun and he was enduring it, but by the end of the day he did not look happy. Which is funny because, JG, wasn’t that one of the best rehearsal processes you’ve ever had?
Greer: It’s one of the only ones I’ve ever had, but yes.
Garner: I would shoot Alias all week then go to rehearsals for 13 Going on 30 on weekends. That was when Gary really dug in—we would loosely stage the scenes in a hotel room with a writer, and talk about what the scene is trying to do and where it falls short. Then this writer would take what we came up with and turn it around that night so we could rehearse new pages the next day.
Greer: Gary was tireless about making the script as good as it could possibly be. It was so unusual—and still is—to have rehearsal time before a shoot. Most people meet for the first time on set, right before they say action. One of the things you get out of a rehearsal process is writing to the actors’ strengths. That’s one reason this film feels so intimate.
Garner: I remember working on some of my early scenes with JG and my scenes with Mark where we’re walking around the city talking. Mark comes from a stage background, so he was totally down to play dramaturg and say, “This doesn’t track with how Matty would react,” or, “This doesn’t make sense.” We would just toss things around.
Judy, aside from Jawbreaker, this was the first time you got to play a character with a mean streak. Do you enjoy working in that mode?
Greer: A lot. It’s really, really fun. I think people on set are slightly more nervous around you than when you’re playing a happy dumb-dumb. People on the crew would walk up to me after a take and go, “You’re such a bitch!”
Garner: Well JG, you were not always the nicest to me...
Greer: I had to be pretty mean to Jen in rehearsals. I totally got into this headspace of, Ugh, everybody loves Jen and wants to be her. I can’t complain about anything until she does and she never will, so I guess I’ll just never get a Diet Coke!
Garner: Oh, we can complain. We’ve gotten much better at complaining!
Jen, what was your prep like in terms of channeling your inner 13-year-old?
Garner: Susan and Donna had 13-year old daughters at the time—it was spring of 2003, so I believe they were seventh graders. They had a little clutch of girlfriends, so I had a sleepover with them. Their moms rented a bounce house and we made cookies and watched movies and got up in the middle of the night to eat sugar—we did the whole thing and had such a blast. I’m still close to those girls and so proud of them because now they’re all grown-ups. They’re all 30 or 31—
Greer: Shut your goddamn mouth right now.
Garner: I’m sorry JG, but all of the 13-year-olds who loved our movie when it came out are 33 now.
Greer: It’s weird how we haven’t gotten any older, though.
Garner: I know, it’s so weird how I’m also 33. Really interesting.
Just a bunch of millennials, chatting about 13 Going on 30.
Garner: Yeah, with my reading glasses and my cup of tea.
Greer: Hold on, where are mine? [Puts on reading glasses.] Thank God, now I can actually see both of you!
Garner: Did you know JG literally has a menopause supplement company?
Greer: Um excuse me, it’s perimenopause.
Garner: My apologies, perimenopause! But that sleepover just reminded me of how much freedom you have in your body at that age. I just watched them and saw how much their eyes were always listening. They really wanted to lean in and understand and hear, which feels very Jenna.
Judy, were you more of a Jenna or Lucy in high school?
Greer: I would love to have been as cool as Jenna. It’s funny, because after they cast the younger actress who plays me [Alexandra Kyle], everyone was like, “Oh my God, she’s so pretty and looks just like you!” It’s like, yeah, maybe now, but she doesn’t look anything like me when I was 13. I was so foul and gross-looking.
Garner: JG and I were both on the struggle bus when we were 13.
Greer: Oh, I had the front seat—I wasn’t even in the back.
Garner: I was the middle child of three girls and I played in the band—I wasn’t a cheerleader or anything popular and cute.
In that BTS documentary, Gary mentions that Judy was constantly improvising on-set, to the point that he had difficulty deciding which takes to use. Do either of you recall any of those moments that ended up in the film?
Greer: No, I wish I did. That’s a lovely compliment from Gary, but no one person is a vacuum, especially on a set like that. We haven’t even talked about how funny Andy Serkis was.
Garner: I don’t know, JG. You really do bring an extra special sauce.
Greer: Now with so many jobs it feels like we’re being rushed all the time, and there’s never any time to figure out a scene on set. You’re just trying to hit your mark and get out of the way so you don’t hold everybody up. But on 13 Going on 30 we just had a lot of freedom to play.
How would you characterize Gary as a director, and the atmosphere that he cultivated on set?
Garner: He was our biggest fan. I always feel comforted by directors who respect their crews and treat people well. He came at filmmaking from the perspective of, we’re all in this together.
Greer: He had a company called InDigEnt Films that made these little independent movies, and his business model was that everybody got a piece of the profit—from the producers to the boom operator to the craft services person. He gave as much of a shit about the security guards who watched the trailers at night as he did the actors.
Garner: He also had a “no assholes allowed” policy, so you always felt like everybody was in the same headspace. I’m not sure how much is the nostalgia of that time or the kismet of me, Mark, Judy, and Gary being together, but there really is a golden halo around the entire experience.
I know a lot of the film’s interiors were shot in Los Angeles, but I consider 13 Going on 30 a quintessential New York movie. How was the experience shooting on location around the city?
Greer: I felt like such a movie star when our crew would close off a street in Manhattan so we could film a scene. I was like, what the actual fuck is happening? What is my life?
Garner: I had been shooting an episode of Law and Order in NYC what felt like the day before.
Greer: Do you remember when we walked around the corner for lunch and ran into Mariska Hargitay on the street? I couldn’t believe it was happening, I was like, This is so fucking New York.
Garner: We also shot in the coolest places. Now when I’m in Brooklyn, I’ll think, Where were we when we shot that scene of me and Mark with a perfect view of the New York skyline? How do we get there?
Greer: I remember when we shot the “Thriller” scene somewhere in LA, Jen walked in and said, “I think this was a bank in Moscow on an episode of Alias—I’m pretty sure I killed some guys here and broke some guy’s neck over there.”
Garner: For each episode of Alias, we shot five out of eight days on location. I’ve killed bad guys pretty much all over the city of Los Angeles. To this day, I’ll walk into a random building and go, Why do I suddenly feel like I need to climb a wall?
The time has come to talk about fashion—what can you tell me about working with costume designer Susie DeSanto to craft your characters’ looks?
Garner: I’ve worked with Susie eight or nine times since, if that tells you anything. She came into that first meeting with an entire arc for Jenna: color, theme, shape. She is telling her own story that I would compare to being the illustrator of a children’s book: they have their own thing going on that’s sorta counterpoint to what the words are saying.
Greer: She’s truly a genius. All of our outfits are so chic. It was overwhelming how many costume changes we had to do because our characters worked at a fashion magazine. We had to look a certain way and she would mix all kinds of couture and vintage pieces until she found the perfect combination. I mean, that butterfly necklace with that Versace minidress?
Garner: Dude, why did I not keep a single thing from that movie?
Not a single thing?
Garner: I was such a goody two-shoes that it didn’t even occur to me to ask for anything. JG kept a mug that says Poise on it, and then she made me one for my 50th birthday. Now it’s my favorite mug that no one else is allowed to use.
Greer: We were having tea at my house and you said, “What the fuck is that mug?” I was like, “Well, obviously I stole it from the set. Didn’t you take one?” You have to let me visit you at work and tell me what you want, because I have no problem borrowing things from set. I’m a very practical Midwesterner.
Garner: Panties and bras, we love to take panties and bras.
Greer: Absolutely. I think I took some workout clothes, a pair of black trousers—ooh, and a black leather Marc Jacobs tote bag.
Garner: Gary gave me a Marc Jacobs bag when we wrapped that I still have.
That Versace minidress gets all the attention, but I think Judy’s lacy green dress deserves its flowers.
Greer: It was a top and bottom! Of course, at the time I thought, Oh, my God, I’m so fat. Now I look at myself in that outfit and I’m like, God damn, woman.
Garner: And you had a rack, too. I remember being in total awe of your body. I mean, what I would give now.
Greer: Lest we forget that scene in Alias where you’re coming out of the pool?
Garner: But JG, all I saw at the time were flaws. Now I look back and think about how I should’ve just been naked all the time!
Greer: I’m always saying, “Why didn’t I dress sluttier when I was that age?”
Garner: JG, why didn’t we just enjoy what we had? Now I am much kinder to myself because I realize it doesn’t do any good to pick yourself apart. Only when I’m 70 will I look at myself now and think, Damn, you looked good. So love what you have.
Greer: We’re only getting worse-looking every day of our lives, so today is the best I’m ever gonna look.
Garner: That’s the spirit!
Do each of you have a personal favorite outfit from the movie?
Greer: In my final scene, where Lucy has that “pot and the kettle” speech—which was very confusing to memorize—I wear a simple blue dress with my hair down. That was a choice because we felt like my character no longer needed to hide behind her clothes. Lucy always had this undercurrent of competition with Jenna, and her fashion reflects that. But Lucy finally won, so in this final moment she sheds all of that. I really loved that dress—which I did not steal.
The long scarf is a chic touch.
Greer: There was something about cleaning out my office and feeling that scraft and my hair swish around. It all felt very, Fuck you! Fuck Poise!
Jen? If you don’t have a favorite, I can definitely name some…
Garner: Yeah, name some to jog my memory.
The pink slip dress that you put a coat over at the beginning of the film is obviously iconic. An outfit that jumps out every time I watch the film is the camel colored leather jacket with chopsticks in your hair.
Garner: [Laughs.] That one is certainly memorable. Michael Reitz was my hairstylist at the time and the chopsticks were his and Susie’s idea—and they were actually porcupine quills! He found a pair and came into the trailer that morning, like, “I have an idea I wanna try out.” It made me feel like a kid who rifled through a closet and thought, This would be cool! This is grown-up!
Greer: Susie had to build a closet for 30-year-old Jenna that 13-year-old Jenna could play in—but it still had to be pieces that you believe this adult woman would own. We never really get to meet adult Jenna, but we get to see her closet through the eyes of her younger self.
Garner: That’s why I love towards the end of the movie, when Jenna and Matty start to reconnect and her fashion becomes much more grounded.
Does any scene stand out as particularly memorable to shoot?
Garner: The slumber party scene was so much fun. One of those girls [Maddy Sprung-Keyser] is part of a family that I’ve known since I first moved out to Los Angeles. At the last minute I was like, “Wait, I know a 13-year-old girl. Can she be in the scene?” She’s the one who says something like “Guys don’t wanna jump your bones when you’re a metal-mouth!” She got her law degree at NYU and now she’s a big producer living in New York. I was at her wedding not too long ago, so that’s a special memory for me. Whenever I catch part of that scene, I’m like, That’s right, Maddy was in the movie!
Judy, you mention in the BTS documentary that you two would walk around the set pretending to be spies.
Garner: I taught JG how to do spy stuff in between takes because I was so deep in the world of Alias. I was always sneaking down a hallway, so I taught her to give the camera one more glance before you go through a door. Now when I have a scene where I walk through a door, I have to remind myself: You’re not a spy. Stop being a spy.
Greer: It’s so funny because I hadn’t even seen Alias when we made the movie, so my Jen going into this was [from] Felicity and Dude, Where’s my Car? Which is crazy, because you were kicking ass all day long on this hit TV show. But I think Jen can do anything—she is truly the best actor. She can be a spy or a goofy 13-year-old dancing to “Thriller” or the woman of your dreams, walking down a street with Mark Ruffalo. That scene of you two walking around New York and eating Razzles at the park probably made a million girls wanna move to New York City and fall in love with Mark Ruffalo. It could’ve been used as an advertisement.
The film grossed $96 million against a $37 million budget, and for a genre that isn’t generally respected by the critical establishment, it’s one of the few romantic comedies from that era to receive positive reviews.
Garner: It felt big at the time, but the weird thing is that it’s only grown since then.
Greer: Yeah, and in many demographics—even men.
Garner: Straight men.
Greer: It always kills me when some super masculine dude will come up to me and say, “My wife really loves 13 Going On 30 and watches it all the time.” Suuuure, but you’re the one quoting it! I’m working with a young actress named Laurel Marsden, and she recently told me that 13 Going on 30 is her favorite movie to watch with her mom.
Garner: I hear that a lot—it’s a movie people love to watch with their mom, their sister, their roommate. I had a guy tell me that he grew up with a lot of anxiety and the only way he could fall asleep was watching it every night for years.
What did you think when you saw all of the 13 Going on 30 references in Ariana Grande’s “thank u, next” video?
Garner: I was so touched. I met her at something very early in her career and was in total awe because her voice is so out-of-this-world. I work with the same vocal coach she uses, and he said, “I don’t think you realize how excited Ariana is to meet you!” And when I met her she was like, “You don’t understand, this movie is my everything.” Bless her, she’s such a sweetheart.
When would you say you noticed the film was not just a hit, but part of the pop-culture canon?
Greer: Drag shows are always a good indication. But I think something worth pointing out is the big difference in how movies were released. Back then you had three waves: a theatrical release that would hopefully go on for a couple of months, a DVD release, and cable. Now, everything is streaming and condensed into one magical day. But there was an entire generation of young people who grew up watching 13 Going on 30 over and over. I really think it’s the kids of our contemporaries who have carried on the love for this movie.
Garner: It’s the next generation of people watching it who have really made me aware of its staying power. There’ve been multiple times when I’m out trick-or-treating with my kids and see someone dressed up as Jenna in that minidress. The kids who were 13 when it came out are now grown-ups showing it to their kids—I know that because they always reach out to me and say, “I’m now 30, flirty, and thriving!”
Greer: It’s hard to make a movie that’s as smart and funny and interesting to an adult as it is to a 13-year-old, much less a movie that grows with you and your sense of humor. You start to laugh and relate to the things your mom did when she watched it the first time. It’s hard to make a movie like that!
Garner: It’s also a very relatable thing for a 13-year-old girl to have a frenemy that you worship but you’re also a little bit scared of. You can see how kids would relate to a grown-up version of that dynamic.
The movie also communicates something very relatable about Jenna not liking the person she’s become, and reflecting on the choices that brought her to that point. Without fail, I always tear up midway through when she goes back to her childhood home and Billy Joel’s “Vienna” starts to play.
Garner: How about the fabulous Kathy Baker as my mother? I remember improvising that line, “I wish I’d come home last Christmas.” As funny and silly as the movie can be, it really does pull at the heartstrings. It was kind of a leap to take a detour to Jenna’s childhood home in the middle of the movie, but that was Gary’s touch. I do think that innocence is part of the secret sauce.
It’s never a given that actors are gonna get along or stay in touch after a shoot, but you both seem to have made an effort to remain in each other’s lives in the 20 years since 13 Going on 30.
Greer: You can have every intention of staying in touch and say, “I’m not gonna lose this one!” at the end of every movie. But I think Gary’s pulling on some strings and making sure that not too much time goes by where we don’t see each other.
Garner: I don’t know anyone who works harder or is more in-demand than JG. But we’re very quick to forgive each other if we don’t speak for a while. We don’t hold each other to any bullshit—we always find a way, and it’s always “I love you and I’m happy to see you.”
When Judy’s back in LA, you two can have a sleepover and rewatch 13 Going on 30.
Greer: We totally will. I’m back from Finland soon. Plus, I heard from a little birdie that your next job is in LA.
Garner: I pretty much only shoot in LA—which is why you going to all these places sounds so fun and exotic. The furthest I travel for work these days is Pasadena.
Greer: I’m so jealous. I just wanna come home and have a glass of wine with you.
Garner: We’ll make it happen, we always do. Love you, JG.
Greer: Love you, babe.