Today is day one of our New York Fashion Week Shark Week—get ready to sink your teeth in. (You’ll be so sick of my shark puns by the end of this!) First, a model line-up: We spoke to Paloma Elsesser and British designer Supriya Lele, her friend and collaborator. The pair teamed up for the newly conceived Victoria’s Secret “World Tour,” a party (last night!) followed by a film later in the month.
Chioma and Paloma are co-judges for the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund, and carpooled the day after we spoke to different designer studio visits (I was envisioning James Corden’s Carpool Karaoke, but apparently they just talked instead!). We did more chatting when Paloma and Supriya joined us via Zoom on the pod, and heard about how their collaboration began (an Instagram DM), their personal preferences for lingerie (clean and simple), and the Ozempic effect on the modeling industry (not good!).
Chioma also caught up with Dutch superstar Jill Kortleve, who discussed the snowballing of her career—from only getting cast for the Alexander McQueen show, to walking seemingly every major show last season. She also addressed the systemic sizeism still prevalent in runway casting and the online bullying she received for being labeled a plus-size model. Plus, Jill shared how she gears up for the fashion month marathon—it’s not all champagne coupes and off-duty glamour!—and stays grounded throughout the swirl.
Read our conversation with Paloma and Supriya below:
Chioma Nnadi: How would you describe your aesthetic, you know, to someone who didn t, who doesn t know your, what, what the clothes look like?
Supriya Lele: So, I d probably say that obviously my work is very much inspired by my Indian heritage, but also my English upbringing. And it is this sort of intersection between the two cultures that I like to explore. But I like to take these Indian tropes and kind of sub- make them quite subversive. It s quite minimal. I like to think it s quite chic. I play a lot with color and sheerness of fabrics, and I think... And, you know, and a lot of draping. So, that s kind of always the kind of core of what I do. But then I love to sort of juxtapose that alongside more kind of subversive elements, you know, which it could be like rubber fabrications and outerwear, or more kind of European centered dress codes.
Chloe Malle: Do you guys wear lingerie yourselves? Or are you more tidy, whitey kind of ladies or-
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs].
Chloe Malle: What are we sleeping in?
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs] Paloma, tell us.
Chloe Malle: Undress with us.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: Um, I am pretty simple, I think. Unfortunately, because of the nature of my job, I can only wear, like, one color underwear constantly.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: So that s kind of what fills my entire [laughs] underwear drawer.
Chloe Malle: Is that all black?
Paloma Elsesser: No, no. They re nude.
Chioma Nnadi: Nude.
Paloma Elsesser: Like-
Chloe Malle: Oh, okay.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, they re all color, flesh toned, right?
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah, it s so annoying.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: But also... So then, oppositely, when I can wear underwear for, like, my own pleasure, which are a departure from those kind of like plasticy ones. I won t say the name.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: I just feel like I like the uniform of-
Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: ... lingerie. I like cotton, breathable material for the the punani and [laughs] all these things.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: But seriously, like, I keep it really straightforward because I think... I didn t really get to have the, like, the experience and then obviously because working with VS I do get to have the experience in wearing these like really expressive, like, exciting things, and then I just, like, put my sweatpants back on. [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs].
Paloma Elsesser: So, yeah, I m pretty simple, if you ask me. And I love a granny panty.
Chioma Nnadi: Same. I, I feel... I love having a uniform underneath because I m not the per- the kind of person who has a uniform, you know, to the outside world. So, it s nice [laughs] just to have the same pair of same drawers, same cotton drawers. [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: Right.
Chioma Nnadi: Nothing being too crazy. What... I mean, I m interested, you know, obviously how you felt, Paloma, when you were approached by VS. What was your reaction when you were approached and what made you decide to be like, "Yeah, I m gonna be a VS girl now"? [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: Um-
Chloe Malle: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: ... well, I think most of all, I think it was a point in my career where I felt that I was being invited into conversations. So, obviously, I don t know if people... Cause I think he likes being a little bit mysterious, so I have to call out Raul-
Chloe Malle: Hmm.
Chioma Nnadi: Hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: ... the big boss at VS now, who s-
Chloe Malle: Raul Martinez, who used to be the creative director at Vogue.
Supriya Lele: Yes.
Paloma Elsesser: Exactly, exactly. So, I m, like, last name first.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah.
Paloma Elsesser: Whatever.
Chloe Malle: He s The Wizard of Oz. He s behind the curtain.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah.
Chioma Nnadi: Yes.
Chloe Malle: ... but we can call him out.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah, we can call him out.
Paloma Elsesser: Who s also very instrumental in my career at Vogue.
Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: So, initially before Raul had signed on, I had been a little bit, if not a lot of bit, hesitant to being a part of this new VS pasture. Um, I would have been asked at the time I was working with another lingerie brand pretty, pretty, um, intimately. So, I was like, "I m okay." Uh-
Supriya Lele: No pun intended. [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: Exactly.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: But, I... So, when Raul called me, not only because I just respect him as, you know, the positions that he s held in the industry for so long, but as a human being and as a person who s been fundamental in my own career. I was like of course I wanna hear this person. I trust this person. So, in that first initial conversation, I was able also to call out a lotta my grievances and my critiques of the historic brand and the ways in which I wanted and needed it to change, uh, for me to participate. I don t know if many models are granted that same, um, opportunity, you know, to, like, have meetings with designers and CMOs and CFOs and speak so intimately to a creative director. Um, and then when the show came up... I actually, funnily enough, the first thing I [laughs] ever said to, in my first meeting with Victoria Secret, mainly Raul and everybody, was like, "I don t wanna walk down a runway in wings and lingerie."
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: That was funny when I started hearing, like, whispers or whatever. And Raul, which I just think is indicative of his own integrity and how he really wants to help usher Victoria Secret into this new age was, it was like, "Hey, can me, you, Mina," my agent who s super involved as well, "And designers and some people on the creative team walk through this new VS show. And it s not gonna be..." And he even remembered Mina, "And it s not gonna be this thing, this nightmare that you said you-
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: ... never do." And not to say it s a nightmare. I m just, like, I m pretty, uh, like, outspoken and actually, like, extroverted, but I m also quite shy and e- easily embarrassed by certain things.
Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: And so, I don t think it s, like, not surprising that no one wants to walk down a runway in their, in a thong. Like [laughs]-
Chloe Malle: And wings.
Paloma Elsesser: ... you know, what I mean?
Chloe Malle: and wings.
Chioma Nnadi: And wings.
Chloe Malle: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: And out of respect, respect to the icons who came before us who, who did it. I m sure people aren t, some people are gonna really want the old thing, but there s something very exciting... I m quite brave to stand in the face of that and to try something really, really different and really new.
Chloe Malle: Paloma, what is your... I mean, you ve worn many outfits because that s what you do. What level of... What state of undress feels the most authentic for you?
Paloma Elsesser: I dunno. I think something I really appreciate about my job is that it takes more, like, other parts of myself. I think there s been a very, like, prescriptive version of way that, like, plus-sized bodies are, are viewed and seen. I remember when I first did the show. I mean, I don t know if I would actually wear, like, a tiny neon top-
Chloe Malle: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: ... but it was actually very radical for them to put me in that top and a pair of pants.
Chloe Malle: Hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: I never wear pants for shows, ever.
Chloe Malle: Hmm.
Chioma Nnadi: Really?
Paloma Elsesser: I never wear pants.
Chloe Malle: Wow.
Paloma Elsesser: They never put plus girls in pants.
Chloe Malle: Wow.
Paloma Elsesser: Start paying attention. Start looking.
Chioma Nnadi: I am. I am gonna pay attention. I actually... You re right. It s usually a dress-
Chloe Malle: A knit dress.
Chioma Nnadi: A knit dress.
Paloma Elsesser: Dress and the jacket, yeah.
Chloe Malle: Yeah. Wow.
Paloma Elsesser: So, putting me in black trousers and a tiny [laughs] neon top, yeah, like I would wear that in real life. Separately that, but it also-
Chioma Nnadi: You looked amazing, by the way. That was a great [laughs] show.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah. I was a good show, you know. When I ve done Supriya’s show, like, wearing a mini skirt and wearing, kinda, these layers and these waves and also just being invited into the process.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. No, I mean, you have such a fantastic style. And you know, Paloma happens to be a judge on the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund-
Chloe Malle: Oh, I didn t realize that.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. And her insights are always so, like, incredibly spot on. I mean, I think any designer who gets to work with you should use your eyes as well-
Paloma Elsesser: Hmm.
Chioma Nnadi: ... as your amazing presence and body and, you know, beauty. But do you find that, that, that, that s beginning to happen, cause I do think that, like, you know, you know your body best, right? So, people should be asking more questions to you about, "Well, what feels good for you? And wh- And how would you do this and how would you approach this?"
Paloma Elsesser: I think as women or people, but especially as models where it s like I, and as a model, like, I think anyone of any size definitely should be asked and, like, consenting to a certain degree, for sure.
Chloe Malle: Supriya, was it helpful asking Paloma?
Supriya Lele: Yeah. I mean, every time I ve worked with Paloma I feel that we ve, we ve had, like, a very open and honest dialogue about what, you know, what you like, whether you like your look, the overthought of that you, you know, that I thought would look good on you, or perhaps you d prefer something to be different, you know, fit and feeling, those two things. Like, you re, you know, you re working, you re collaborating with somebody who is... You know, you want them to feel really amazing when they re wearing those pieces, right? So, when, you know, when they re walking down the runway they, they look incredible and feel good.
Chioma Nnadi: Do you think things have changed in the time that you ve been a model? Cause you ve been in, you ve been a model for a while now.
Paloma Elsesser: I been here for almost nine years.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah. Gosh.
Paloma Elsesser: Eight, nine, eight... Yeah. It s really crazy. So, I think there has been a lot of changes. I definitely have kind of general critiques of post COVID response-
Chioma Nnadi: Hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: ... to kind of just the nature of, like, disposal and obviously our propensity towards thinness.
Chioma Nnadi: Mm-hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: Again, unfortunately in this industry and in our industry it s still a risk to use any kind of marginalized body.
Chloe Malle: Do you think that the sort of last six month to a year of f- feeling like the fashion industry s gotten so thin again and everyone on Ozempic, do you think that s affected the way there were, the strides that had been made about different body types in the industry?
Paloma Elsesser: For sure. I mean, I think that it s mainly, like, there s always been actually majority people, I think, who didn t want there to be change.
Chloe Malle: Mm-hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: And that s just the truth, cause despite having, like, been around for a while, there s still a lot of opportunities that, that me and models like me haven t had or even been afforded or even conceived of being afforded.
Chloe Malle: Right.
Paloma Elsesser: You know? So, it actually... The ownness isn t really on, of course like, changing people s minds. It s about those that were, like, down for it as it was happening, like, doubling down.
Chloe Malle: Right.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah.
Paloma Elsesser: You know?
Chioma Nnadi: Hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: Because it s really not, it s not a collective belief. Like, unfortunately-
Chioma Nnadi: Hmm.
Paloma Elsesser: ... it s really sad, but I ve always known that.
Chloe Malle: Right.
Paloma Elsesser: I ve always known that it s, like, an uphill battle. I ve always known that most people in this industry don t want to see that change happen. You know, I took off shows last season and it was very felt. I got a lot of messages-
Chloe Malle: Yeah.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah.
Paloma Elsesser: ... about-
Chioma Nnadi: It was felt. It was last season.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah.
Chioma Nnadi: It felt like... Yeah.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah. Yeah.
Chloe Malle: Yeah. I remember you saying to me, Chomma, that, like, that was a big takeaway. The model... Like, the runways were small and thin.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah. Yeah.
Chloe Malle: That, that s a sh- It s such a shame.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah. I mean, I m coming back this season.
Chloe Malle: [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: [laughs]
Chloe Malle: All right, guys. Well, thank you so much. And-
Chioma Nnadi: Thank you.
Chloe Malle: ... good luck-
Chioma Nnadi: ... catch up.
Chloe Malle: ... at Fashion Month.
Paloma Elsesser: Yeah. I think I see you tomorrow. [laughs]
Supriya Lele: I see you tomorrow. I know. We re go- we re gonna be seeing [laughs] a lot of each other in the next few days.
Paloma Elsesser: [laughs]
Supriya Lele: We re doing studio visits with-
Chloe Malle: Oh, that s fun.
Supriya Lele: ... the, uh, designers.
Chioma Nnadi: Yeah and, and, and-
Chloe Malle: I think that s-
Chioma Nnadi: ... Paloma always-
Chloe Malle: ... fun part.
Chioma Nnadi: ... brings her car and her car s [laughs]... She drives-
Chloe Malle: You drive there?
Chioma Nnadi: I m never in someone s car. I m always like, "Oh my God, I m not in an Uber. I m actually in Paloma s-
Paloma Elsesser: [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: ... car."
Chloe Malle: I like the idea of-
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Chloe Malle: ... Paloma being the, the Fashion Fund Uber driver. [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: She really does.
Paloma Elsesser: I am.
Chioma Nnadi: She drives to all the things. We have a whole list to do-
Chloe Malle: [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: ... and it s, it s quite fun.
Paloma Elsesser: I do it, honestly. I also drive to, like, shows when I m in New York.
Chioma Nnadi: Really?
Paloma Elsesser: Uh-
Chioma Nnadi: You drive to shows? What about parking?
Paloma Elsesser: Sometimes I just park illegally.
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: [laughs]
Chloe Malle: That s such-
Chioma Nnadi: Solve everything.
Chloe Malle: ... a baller move-
Paloma Elsesser: Uh-huh.
Chloe Malle: ... to just be like take it beyond.
Paloma Elsesser: Just gets-
Chioma Nnadi: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: ... me there fast, but then sometimes I don t, but yes. I ll you tomorrow, Chioma.
Supriya Lele: [laughs]
Paloma Elsesser: Thank you guys so much.
Chloe Malle: [laughs]
Chioma Nnadi: Thanks.
Chloe Malle: All right.
Supriya Lele: I m excited to see what you decide to see the, the show and everything.
